The northern Nodites and Amadonites - the Vanites.
This group arose prior to the Bablot conflict. These northernmost Nodites were the descendants
of those who had forsaken the leadership of Nod and his successors for that of Van and Amadon.
Urantia Book 860
following is mainly written for UB readers concerning the Vanites. The
question is, who are the descendants of the Vanites that contributed to
the Assyrian stock? Are the Hurrians or the Subarians the Vanites
much later descendants? I think we can figure this out based on
several statements from the Book and what we historically know about
know that they, the Vanites who are comprised of the Amandonites and
those Nodites who chose to follow Van, lived in northwestern and
Mesopotamia starting after the rebellion all the way down to
of the Assyrians. The following is my understanding of the historical
with its various viewpoints, which varies somewhat from what has been
As far as archaeology is concerned it begins with the grouping together, under an umbrella term, the people of Mesopotamia - the various prehistoric tribes, clans and associations as a starting point for the historic where different peoples can then be identified. The three terms I have read for these people are the "Pan-Subarian", "Japhetic" and "Proto-Hurrian." From this prehistoric group emerge four main groups that are interrelated. They would be the Hurrians, Sabarians, Mitanni and the Urartians. The location for the Mitanni and the Urartians is fairly well documented. The location for the Hurrians and the Sabarians is a considerable expanse of territory across northern Mesopotamia. Different historians put them anywhere from eastern Anatolia (adjacent to the Hittites) and (later) east to the Caspian Sea and beyond into Central Asia. These last two are the two main groups we will be looking at. The Hittites who lived more westward in Anatolia "stemmed directly from the Andonite tribes which had long inhabited these central regions." (UB 896)
greatest evidence for these people is linguistic and in particular
their proper names. Some archaeologists consider the
Sabarian and Hurrian as the same people. E.
A. Speiser considers them as the same with his
preference for the term Hurrian as their most fitting designation. His
on the origin of the Hurrians is now considered the standard. Ignace
Gelb, a contemporary, considers them as
different but his argument has been eclipsed by Speiser. But Gelb has a
lot of valuable information concerning this history (see below).
Although I agree that the
Sabarians are ethnically of the Hurrians, I think that because they
appear as a specific people in the Greek (Sabirs/Sapirs), Akkadian (Subartu), Assyrian (Supri/Sapar-da/Subartu/Subarri), Persian (Sabarda/Matiene/Mada), Old Babylonian (Subar),
Neo-Babylonian (Subartu), Egyptian
(Subari) and Sumerian Ur III
that they are a distinct political
entity living in a land with definite boundaries. The Babylonians
separated the Subarians from the Assyrians because both are mentioned
as attacking Babylon. Even
the Assyrians warred with the Subarians but then the Assyrians warred
just about everyone. Sometimes they are understood as the Hurrites or
Horites. They most likely are the
forerunners to the Scythians
Hungarians. The important point to remember is that Subarians equate
with Hurrians. They are the same people but politically different. It
is important to discuss the Sabarians because of
is said about them and what is said of them also applies to the
Hurrians who I believe are the later descendants of the Vanites.
is the country of Turkestan (above text), now Turkmenistan, that I find
surprising in this quote. It was in the most southwestern part of
Turkmenistan, the Kopet Dagh, where Van's
most eastern headquarters was located.
The allusion to a stag is an important part of Hungarian folklore.
From the Sumerian epic "Enki and the World Order" is this quote:
"The lord, the great ruler of the Abzu
issues instructions on board the 'Stag of the Abzu'
-- the great emblem erected in the Abzu, providing protection,
its shade extending over the whole land and refreshing the people,
the principal foundation (?), the pole planted in the ...
... marsh, rising high over all the foreign lands."
Sumerian myths claimed that the god of Air en-Lil created man. Other
myths claimed that enKi created
man, but in fact the FinnUgor myths claim that the equivalent of Enki
known as "world caretaker" man, was originally
the ancestor of mankind. In a sense he is the father of mankind, but
not its creator.
interesting, the "double origins" concept found beyond Mesopotamia and
"World caretaker," what a nice surprise. It is also
a trail of connect
the dots. It appears that the Hurrians, but named as the
eastward through what by now is a well known corridor that borders the
southern Caspian Sea. As they traveled
east into Turkmenistan they curved northward. That brings them into the
area that would later be called Chorasmia
with its welcomed oasis and considered by some historians as originally
settled by the Subirs. Their northward movement would be split by the
Ural Mountains funneling some to the east into Siberia but most to the
west into Old Europe the gateway to western Europe. Here it becomes
interesting. The land to the northeast, Siberia, would become the
origin of the Hungarians who would later migrate eventually to the
Carpathian Basin and claim it as Hungary. Siberia is also home to the
Ob-Ugrian and as some historians would have it, home to the FinnUgor
(with the suffix Ugor located both east and west of the Urals and most
likely with the same ancestry as the Ob-Ugrian if not the same
people. The difference in names might be related to a time frame and/or
the ethnology of the historian.)
Along with these early Hungarians came a language with strong Sumerian
ties, Siberian folklore and legends which is why some scholars have the
origin of the Hungarians in Sumeria itself. As for the Hungarian
conclusion [László Götz] is that most
ethno-linguistic groups are related to one another in varying degrees,
and that these groups, such as the Indo-European, Uralic and Altaic
groups, were formed in a complex process of multiple ethno-linguistic
hybridization in which Sumerian-related peoples (Subareans, Hurrians,
Kassites, Elamites, Chaldeans, Medes, Parthians) played a fundamental
role." and that
linguistic similarities between Sumerian, Hungarian and other languages
are corroborated by the archeological and anthropological data
discovered so far."
The map above includes an area labeled as Turania which is another name for Central Asia. If you do any more reading on this subject you will encounter it so I include it here.
Here is more on the
"There is therefore strong linguistic evidence that the
of Hungarians lived in the Mesopotamian region during the third
millenium B.C. and possibly even earlier. This evidence is supported by
definite traces of Sumerian mythology and religious concepts
Hungarian folklore. The cult of the Great Stag, one of the
personifications of the Sumerian god Enki, is reflected in numerous
Hungarian Christmas and New Year’s Eve regos
chants.20 It is perhaps not without significance that the melodies of
these chants differ markedly from the pentatonic folk-songs prevalent
in old Hungarian music and are generally regarded as of much more
ancient origin.-1 Although the cult of a benevolent stag divinity is
common to many peoples, Hungarians have also preserved his name,
Dara-mah (Hungarian Doromo, Durumo), and the memory of his son Dumuzig
(later Tammuz) survived in the Hungarian pagan god Damachek."
Further evidence of associations with Enki can be seen to the left. The first is a Sumerian seal of Enki showing the water coming from him with the fish as the first and most popular association. The middle is a Hittite relief with the goat and the Tree of Life. The last is the Sumerian version labeled as the "Ram in the Thicket" which is a gross misnomer. It is neither a ram nor a thicket. Both the Hittite and Sumerian art work have the goat standing on the Tree of Life itself. This is exactly what the Sumerian epic "Enki and the World Order" says about the 'Stag of the Abzu' as he is "on board" the stag of the Abzu with it's "shade extending over the whole land." Eventually the stag became Enki himself. Which brings up the question, is this where the idea of the god (or king) became the Tree itself? In Daniel 4:20-22 he interprets Nebuchadnezzar's dream of a huge tree, "It is thou, O king." There are other examples of authoritarian figures being the Tree. "Turkic peoples are also aware of an ethno genetic myth about mankind (Radlov, 1989, p 357) or as a shaman ancestor generating from a tree." (http://www.tcoletribalrugs.com/article11trees.html) Part of the shaman's ritual does include the shaman climbing the Tree of Life. The last association with Enki is the eagle which you can see in the first Sumerian seal impression. Also, the goat is present just under Enki in case you missed it. "The three animals which we see around Enki - the fish, the bird and the horned goat - may well symbolize the totality of the animal world – all that flies, swims or runs. Water is essential to the life of all of them." (https://scythianwarriorofsatan.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/the-great-stag-by-ida-bobula/)
There are also composite figures associated with Enki. The line drawing is the fish goat capricorn, one of the animals of the zodiac which would be Babylonian, taken from the earlier "animal round" which is Sumerian. The small sculpture is an apkallu and in this case represents Oannes the Babylonian fish man. Neither of these are Enki himself but are symbolic representations.
scholars suggest that Subartu is an early name for Assyria proper on
the Tigris and westward, although there are various other theories
placing it sometimes a little farther to the east and/or north. Its
precise location has not been identified."
The brown area on the map is based on present day Kurdistan. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the Kurds by my theory are Nodite descendants. It was by looking at this Kurdish territory that I could more plainly see various relationships and I feel confident that this is also the territory of the Hurrians. Much of what I had read seemed to fall into place and this latest research only strengths my conviction. The Hurrians were mainly a mountain dwelling people but did expand south. They did have their time of domination just like many different groups did. They became the power brokers of their time even bringing Assyria under their control. "The Hurrians, who seem to have operated on a grand scale, having their 'contacts spreading well into Europe', have been related by some scholars to the Finno-Ugrians, a conclusion that has been drawn from their language." (Gösta Werner Ahlström, The History of Ancient Palestine, Sheffield Academic Press, © 1993) When they were in their decline, around 1300 BC, they moved into the "Hinter Land" also called "Hinter Asia" which would be the mountainous area on the map where the text Lake Van is located. Although some maps have Kurdistan as being as far south as to the eastern side of the Persian Gulf, this map stops at Elam. I go with this map in part because of it. The Western Syrian Nodites may have become, at least in part, culturally Vannic and therefore different from the Elamites who so long ago they moved away from, which is why I interpret this map of Kurdistan as correct and ending at the boundary with Elam. And this agrees with Assyriologist E. A. Speiser's division of the northern and southern groups of indigenous peoples.
"The Hurrians were so ubiquitous that many Indo-Iranian and Indo-European peoples are believed to have substantive Hurrian contributions in their ethnogenesis. For example, the Kurds consider themselves and their culture as descendants of the Hurrians and their civilization, despite linguistic differentiation." (Amjad M. Jaimoukha, The Chechens: A Handbook, RoutledgeCurzon © 2005 p 28)
"Subartu may have been in the general sphere of influence of the Hurrians. There are various alternate theories associating the ancient Subartu with one or more modern cultures found in the region, including the Armenians. The Kurdish scholar Mehrdad Izady, claims to have identified Subartu with the current Kurdish tribe of Zebari/Zubari/Zibaris inhabiting the northern ring north of Erbil, east of Mosul up to Hakkari in Turkey. (https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Subartu&item_type=topic)
Hurrians were present in Northern Mesopotamia and the country between
the Tigris and the Zagros mountains from the first half of the third
millenium B.C., their home territory was in the region of Lake Van in
eastern Anatolia and the high land zone between the Upper
Euphrates and the Caucasus. Archaeological finds in this area manifest
a general uniformity of material culture from the last quarter to the
fourth millenium B.C., suggesting ethnic unity and pointing to
continuous occupation by the Hurrians from that time onwards."
"Of the two
designations, “ Subarian ” was the first
— in a variety of sources from Mesopotamia.
” was encountered later, along the western fringes of the
The capital city of the
Hurrians was Urkesh in the Kingdom of
Mitanni. That is the archaeological
location and of all the cities
mentioned so far it is the only one that begins with UR.
"It is only after this Hurrian expansion that the name ‘Hurri’, or more exactly fc/ш гп', makes its first appearance in contemporary sources and this has led Ungnad to suggest that that name does not designate a people but only a political concept, such as ‘federation’ or ‘union’. However, Hrozny has established that there was also a city called Khurri or Khurra mentioned by that name in Assyrian and Babylonian records which was probably identical with modern Urfa (Edessa) and was the centre of the Hurrian empire. This makes it appear more likely that khurri was the name of the Hurrian people in their own language and that they applied the same designation to their capital.
"Assuming, therefore, that the carved jar of Karmir Blur was of Hungarian origin, its emergence among the ruins of an Urartian fort furnishes further proof of close Hurrian-Hungarian relations. These can be also traced in another important way. We have already referred to the fact that in early Christian tradition and Moslem mythology Edessa (Urfa) was particularly closely associated with Nimrod (Chapter 1 ), and we have also pointed out that this city was probably the capital of the Hurrians. It is therefore very likely that Nimrod was a Hurrian mythical figure, or perhaps even an early Hurrian ruler, and that he personifies that people in the Bible and Near Eastern tradition. Biblical references to the role played by him in Assyria are certainly consistent with the Hurrian occupation of that country and although there is no evidence that the Hurrians engaged in any large scale building activities throughout the Near East, it is quite possible that the Israelites simply attributed to them the works of the Sumerians of whom they had no memory. After all, the Hurrians were still around at the time the Genesis was written (c. 950 B.C.) but the Sumerians had completely disappeared nearly a thousand years previously." (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/20Roots/260Convergence/Hungarians/EndreyASonsOfNimrodCh7-9.pdf)
With the decline of the
Hurrians as a historical people, and after a
victorious past, the Urartians that lived about Lake Van who were of
Hurrian descent were able to
become the dominant power of northern Mesopotamia during the Iron Age.
So we have at least two major groups, the Mitanni and the Urartians who
were Hurrian but were politically different and it is true for the
Looking at the map with its Hurrian migrations I can see that Van's headquarters was no random placement. It is located where the Silk Road would develop in the future with its major thoroughfare of the migratory routes including the Adamic, the Andite, the Nodite, the Hurrian and others. It is a strategic location for what Van needed. It was an excellent jumping off point for his missionaries to seed the known world. It was a doorway for his legend to travel between east and west. Shortly after Van departed, Adamson, Adam and Eve's first born, who married Ratta settled here to raise their family. It would continue this Mesopotamian history of the rebellion, its epic consequences and the story of the miraculous Tree of Life.
It would be in this area of Turkmenistan where the Tree of Life grew and where Van and Amadon lived all those millennia. And that presents a bit of a problem. Specifically the World Tree and shamanism. The Tree of Life is as involved in Mesopotamian religion as it is in shamanism. There are many common features of the Tree in Mesopotamia and in Central Asia. I do not think we will be able to untangle this knot of where or when differing concepts, regarding the Tree, originate.
I still have questions about the relationship, if any, between the Hurrians and the Andites. I am assuming that there was, as they both lived in the same basic area of northern Mesopotamia for thousands of years. History and geography indicates that the Hurrian were more of a people of the mountains and the Adamites more plainsmen with their focus on agriculture. The Adamites migrated west across the Mediterranean Basin until it flooded, south into Egypt and east into Turania but they do not seem to have migrated that much north and that may be the reason that the Andites and the Hurrians seem to be two distinctive groups. That's one reason but a better reason is that the Nodites and the Amandonites did not get along together. There was that "traditional enmity" between them. By 6000 BC the Andites were essentially gone except for the southern Sumerians. That would leave the indigenous people of the north, the Vanites, those Amadonites with a component of Nodite blood but not enough Adamic blood to qualify as an Andite and the two groups of Nodites who by this time were most likely amalgamated into one roughly homogeneous group (the northern Nodites) as the emerging proto-Hurrians. So the genetic weight of the Hurrians is Andonite and Nodite. There also would be those Sangiks that would round out this group. That's guesswork but it would satisfy: a people who continued to keep alive the legend of the Tree of Life, the rebellion, the epic event of the mixture of human and divine blood, the traditional belief in the reality of Van as Enki and as a group of aboriginal people cohesive enough to become contributors to the substrata of Mesopotamia.
above map is a composite of several maps. This one, which is my map,
has Chorasmia between the Amu Darya and the Syr Darya rivers with the
inclusion of the agricultural region directly south of the Aral Sea and
all the way west for access to the Caspian Sea. The Amu Darya flows
into the Aral Sea from Afganistan and today the sea is just
The beginning of agriculture in
this region dates back to about 3000 BC. At
about 1000 BC a Neolithic culture flourished in the Chorasmian oasis
but the first historical reference is from the Avesta at about 500 BC. The
record shows that the technologies of civilization traveled north from
the BMAC. An
kingdom of Chorasmia to 600 BC
for the approximate start of its establishment.
kingdom of Chorasmia which would include the older Oxus civilization
also known as the BMAC the forth civilization to arise with Sumeria,
Harappa and Egypt
was located partly in Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan and
borders the Aral Sea. These
are the three largest of the countries of Central Asia. Also included
would be Kyrgystan and Tajikstan. Afghanistan is sometimes also
are indications that some kind of kingdom had come into being as early
as the thirteenth century BCE. The first of these is the fact
that ancient chronographers knew a Chorasmian era, which dated back to
indication is that according to the Gâthâ's,
written in the fourteenth or thirteenth century, the prophet
Zarathustra was protected by king Hystaspes of Chorasmia."
Hurrian descendants also founded the kingdom of Urartu as well as the
central Asian kingdom of Khwarezmia, next to the Aral Sea.(
S.P.Tolstov, Ancient Khwarezmia, Moscow, 1947 ) [Some Russian
researchers claim that Khwarezmia and its area was the possible origin
of the Finno-Ugrian and Altaic nations!] The people of Subartu
(Hurrians and Subars) lived predominantly in northern Mesopotamia but
in very ancient times also in southern Mesopotamia."
"The previous summary illustrates the fact that the Magyar and Sabir names have been found in Northern Mesopotamia since the dawn of history, but they may mislead one to think this is the only place where it was found. Actually one can trace it to the east of this area to the Turanian Lowlands and Turkestan also, where even today there are a few place and geographic names which recall their presence. The Persians split the Sabir people and only one branch lived in the Caucasus while another further east. This is how the Sabirs gave their name to the northern Asia in the name Siberia." (http://genesisjournal.blogspot.com/2004/09/hungarian-ethnic-designations.html)
You just never know. Somethings seem to arrive out of the blue. This is the first research I have done with any depth for Central Asia concerning the proto-Hurrians those earliest Hurrians/Sabirs. The last sentence linking Sabir with Siberia may be another link between Mesopotamia and the Shaman along with those enigmatic eagle headed reliefs from Mesopotamia. But as usual there are other theories for the origin of the name Siberia. For me, which is probably showing my bias, this one makes a lot of sense. Partly based on the fact that they carry those same Andite legends and partly on the fact that the name Sabir, or some version of it, was so well known. Another surprise was the "Winged Old Man." That really was out of the blue. I knew about the Hungarian connection but this research cleared up the gray areas, particularly linguistic, and gave me a more overall picture that I could understand. There is, as usual, one last thing. That is climate and how world events are effected by it. To revisit the Andites who were already in Central Asia in large numbers, an increasing aridity around 8000 BC was starting to drive the Andites from Turkmenistan into neighboring areas which includes the lands about the Euphrates. (UB 878) That timing is just before various civilizations and peoples begin to appear on the map. So Central Asian influences were already afoot in and about Mesopotamia when those religious monuments were first being carved. For me it is no stretch to see the eagle headed Winged Old Man represented in Assyrian, Urartian and Hittite art. It also is no surprise to see them connected with the Sethite priests although I do not understand the forces involved in its fusion. There may be a Babylonian connection. "But ever-increasing drought gradually brought about the great Andite exodus from the lands south and east of the Caspian Sea. The tide of migration began to veer from the northward to southward, and the Babylonian cavalrymen began to push into Mesopotamia." (UB 879) This marked the beginning of the end for Sumeria. But perhaps the start of the apkallu and their association with kingship. "After the breakup of the early Sumerian confederation the later city-states were ruled by the apostate descendants of the Sethite priests. Only when these priests made conquests of the neighboring cities did they call themselves kings." (UB 876) You never know, I was not even going to write this page.
Thank you for reading.